Curse

Relambrien · Nov 06, 2006, 12:19 AM // 00:19

Searing Flames spike/pressure has become the new HA metagame. It is fairly simple to pull off, even with Heroes.

The basic concept is to get burning on a bunch of different targets through Searing Flames' AoE effect (usually involves bringing three eles with Searing Flames), using Glowing Gaze to get back energy, and using Searing Flames again for a boatload of damage.

This is becoming increasingly and incredibly rampant, replacing most of the other builds being formed in HA. I think Anet went a little overboard on their plan to make eles damage dealers again...

However, a guildie of mine and I came up with a decent counter. It involves a little-used elite, Ward Against Harm. Combine this with a Greater Conflagration Ranger, and you have a large portion of damage negated.

My group, which consisted of me as the only monk, two people who have hardly played GW before, my guildie, and two heroes, ANNIHILATED a Searing Flames group with this sort of build. Instead of taking 100+ damage I was taking little more than 20 per hit.

This is a similar concept to a build used in the summer after the release of proph, involving Winter, Greater Conflagration, Rangers with Frostbound Armor, and Mantra of Frost. Change the damage to one element and stack a ton of armor against it.

Alright, now for the discussion. What is everyone's take on this FotM and how would YOU counter it?

TMWNN · Nov 06, 2006, 12:55 AM // 00:55

I've countered it by not sucking and not balling up.

Ive only gone vs heroway teams using it though, might be tougher with human players.

Tainek · Nov 06, 2006, 01:18 AM // 01:18

the problem is, even vs one target they still have good dps, and they only need 3 skills to be offensive (4 for e-manage +utility)

Personally E/Mes with Mantra of flame and frigid armour are pretty amusing

Yunas Ele · Nov 06, 2006, 01:44 AM // 01:44

Ward Against Harm is not a good counter because you have to ball up to use it. Sure you take massively reduced damage but you're balled up, so its hitting everyone. Lets see you take 40 damage per hit (I know you said 20 but I'm having a hard time seeing how you got it down to 20 armor with just ward against harm. Maybe with pyro ele armor, +7 vs elements weapons, mantra of flame, etc). 40 damage per hit to all 6 people on your team (because their balled up in harm) is 240 damage. Each searing is doing a total of 240 damage to the party, as oppsed to what is it? 119 (or somewhere around there I forget) to a single target (if you completely spread out it only hits 1 person per cast).

Anyways best counters
-Spread the **** out. If you're playing heroway flag your heroes just out of your range.
-Mantra of Flame (great e-management and good damage reduction)
-Extinguish with high prot (removes burning off all party members and gives 'em like 2 heal parties worth of healing).
-Signet of Humility, Diversion, Distracting Shot, Distrupting Chop, etc. just disable searing flames..
-Enchant removal: remove fire attunement. Sure they have glowing gaze too but they need both glowing gaze and fire attunement to keep them ticking.

Teh Mighty Warrior · Nov 06, 2006, 03:41 AM // 03:41

All you need is mantra of flame on the monks, and a prot monk who knows how to spam prot spirit. Don't ball up and you're fine.

Relambrien · Nov 06, 2006, 04:04 AM // 04:04

here's a bit more info...

It wasn't JUST Ward Against Harm. It was Ward Against Elements, and Ward of Stability too. Meteor Shower still interrupted without kd though. I was using Mantra of Flame instead of IEnchant that round, as well. After the initial Meteor Shower bombardment, their dps was absolutely awful and easy to heal even though we were balled up.

So yeah, the inherent weakness of that counter is the necessity to ball up, which is why I asked how others dealt with it. Extinguish seems like a half-decent idea as well...But on an E/Mo or something.

And I've seen Searing Flames spikes that killed a single target without specific counters to the attack. Though I wasn't monking against those.

So the main counters are:

Mantra of Flame
Enchant Removal
Interrupts (not always totally reliable, as 1s casts can sometimes escape interrupts, especially from a ranger)
Disable Searing Flames (diversion, etc.)
Spread out

Ways I can see to possibly improve the Searing Flames build:

"They're On Fire!" - reduces damage taken from Burning foes, could find its place on one of the characters.

Brother Redmund · Nov 06, 2006, 06:07 AM // 06:07

Its fairly easy to spot a SF team, remaining spread out is the simplest tactic. A build I have been involved in over the last few days has had a CG ranger in it. This works wonders to neutralise the wave of damage from searing/meteor coming from multiple ele's. This is particularly true as most nuke teams in HA are maybe 1 human ele and 2 heroes - the heroes aren't smart enough to fan out from a ranger putting CG in their midst.

Stixxx · Nov 06, 2006, 07:42 AM // 07:42

Mantra of Flame on the monks really helps.
Choking Gas rangers can interrupt the casters.
Maybe even Backfire can take an SF ele out. Usually SF teams carry little or no hex removal.

iamangry123 · Nov 06, 2006, 11:18 AM // 11:18

searing flame build-worse build ever
All you gotta do is mass defence and move around.

faced 1 every single round at least
look what we got....
Record for 6v6 HoH i presume.

hyro yamaguchi · Nov 06, 2006, 11:33 AM // 11:33

Yes, we know you had 30 cons. wins after posting it 4 times -_-

The Silver Star · Nov 06, 2006, 02:23 PM // 14:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by iamangry123

searing flame build-worse build ever
All you gotta do is mass defence and move around.

faced 1 every single round at least
look what we got....
Record for 6v6 HoH i presume.

Please your turning into that guy that posted in every thread when he won halls with Heroway, honestly people dont come here and post there 30 consecs because nobody cares, kthnxbye

conjurer · Nov 06, 2006, 06:28 PM // 18:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by iamangry123

searing flame build-worse build ever
All you gotta do is mass defence and move around.

faced 1 every single round at least
look what we got....
Record for 6v6 HoH i presume.

That was be4 song, so it worth like nothin

Alleji · Nov 06, 2006, 06:34 PM // 18:34

A decent counter to searing flames is not sucking.

Spread out. Run through choke points instead of standing in them. 3 meteor showers will rape you if you stand still. So move.

That's all there is to it, sure you can bring mantra on monks for e-management, but it's not worth devoting skill slots to actually counter such a weak build.

Hella Good · Nov 06, 2006, 06:48 PM // 18:48

It's just a FoTM. As soon as people realize how stupid it is in a PvP environment, they will switch to something else. I'm amazed no one has Invoke L spiked as of this point. It's waiting to happen, I can assure you.

master_of_puppets · Nov 06, 2006, 10:02 PM // 22:02

this build blows, the only reason people are running it is because you can do it with heroes easily. SF will probably be nerfed. Anet should stop buffing eles

supaet · Nov 06, 2006, 11:17 PM // 23:17

My team used to have problems vs this build, then we use a ele/mo to stay back and run heal party ether prism or prodigy

Riotgear · Nov 07, 2006, 03:47 AM // 03:47

Congrats, you got 30 consec with Thumpway 2.0, Paragon Edition, the flavor of NEXT month.

I think it's squidget that said the whole reason SF is working so well is because everyone jacked up on melee hate and never brought any anti-caster stuff, and now that eles are finally a viable threat, everyone's getting floored by it. You wouldn't just let a warrior stand there with frenzy on beating your face in, would you? So why are you letting an ele do it?

Qual · Nov 07, 2006, 03:55 PM // 15:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by iamangry123

searing flame build-worse build ever
All you gotta do is mass defence and move around.

faced 1 every single round at least
look what we got....
Record for 6v6 HoH i presume.

I've seen that picture for the third time now. Slowly I am getting tired of it. Stop posting it. And yes Searing flames is quite easy to beat, if you got a decent human team that is. I don't think it needs a nerf at all.

shardfenix · Nov 07, 2006, 08:22 PM // 20:22

Searing flames isn't flavor of the month.

As overpowered as fire skills are right now, I'm gonna have to say this.
Heroway/searing flames is half the metagame in HA. If you don't want to waste 2-3 skills on your 48-skill team to beat it, you shouldn't be pvping. What makes the build weak is that each class has like 20 counters to it, not to mention it's all fire damage *cough* mantra of flame/ward against elements *cough*

Banger · Nov 07, 2006, 11:43 PM // 23:43

That's why any smart Searing Flames group would bring a Ranger or an Ele Ranger with Winter and FS. GG Mantra of Flame. However I have only seen one group on scarred earth do that.